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Re: Civic Engagement Online Discussion - June 29 at 7pm
Posted:
Jan 31, 2006 6:30 PM
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> > Jaime,
> >
> > Forgive me for taking so long to get back to you.
> > It's been a busy week. Your post was packed with
> > ideas I wanted to respond to, and I wanted to be
> > able to respond with adequate attention.
>
> Understand that I, Jimmy Longoria, Chicano Artist
> have been using this "medium" to do a form art that
> challenges the right of the "Cosmic White Boy" (
> White Boy refers to the idea of "privilage" and not
> to Race { my birth certificate identifies me as
> "white"} )to rule the art world. Most artists do not
> get it that we as individual artist have a
> responsibility to fight the cannons of the power in
> place. Your words here become part of "my" art work.
> Note "Lux Lumen".
>
> >
> > >>First: "Let us all bend a knee a little and pray
> to
> > the local Art Gods that the Walkie continue to be
> > funded with abundance for the few it serves in the
> > name of us all!"
> >
> > Does this mean you don't love me anymore?
> >  Seriously, though, we can agree to disagree
> > about the WAC (and I would add, the Loft).
>
> No we can not. My "political" art is not about cute,
> wit and interesting concepts; it is rooted in real
> effects. I voice my oppinion as "the" Chicano Artist
> of Minnesota that our Art institutions are "more"
> racist" then our Corporations in Minnesota. I am
> constant in my advocacy that "funderd" pull the
> funding to compell the "Art Professional" to live up
> to his/her claims.
>
> I feel
> > equal amounts of admiration and frustration with
> > both organizations. Both bring in the artists and
> > the writers that are the current masters in their
> > respective crafts (Mike Kelley's lecture was
> > amazing; Li-Young Lee has come to the Cities more
> > times than I can count--some visits through other
> > organizations, true.) and it takes the money/grant
> > system support that they have garnered to bring in
> > these people. But I would agree--their local
> vision
> > is short-sighted.
>
> Obstinate blindness is more like it!!!
>
>
> I've gone to a few Spoken Word
> > events and other non-mainstream Loft events
> (MIZNA,
> > for instance), and it doesn't take too much
> > perceptive insight to get the sense that these
> > off-shoot organizations are not given the same
> > attention/publicity. In my opinion, we can do
> > better. (I use "we" here because I am a member of
> > both organizations, and therefore I am willing to
> > take responsibility both for what is lacking and
> for
> > advocating for change.)
> >
> > >>Second: "On your quandary over educational
> models;
> > it is a ongoing dialogue amongst the practitioners
> of
> > that 'craft'. The 'Art' of teaching always will
> > remain beyond the use by the average teacher, no
> > matter how we educate them."
> >
> > I agree. The personality, drive and vision of the
> > teacher usually determines the success of the
> > lesson/class moreso than any set pedagogy or
> practice
> > (unless one has an unusually gifted student who
> could
> > extract water from a stone in order to learn
> > something).
> >
> > >>Third: "The tragedy of our education system is
> that
> > it continues to attempt to produce an 'average
> > education' by produceing average teachers and
> average
> > curriculums.
> >
> > Again, I agree, but what I have to say on this
> > subject would fill volumes, so I will exercise
> > self-control here.
>
>
> It is not what have to say that matters; it is what
> you do that matters.
>
>
> >
> > >>Fourth: "'Art Professionals' have for many years
> > looked at the 'Education Community' as a 'Market'
> > opportunity. Most Artists that have enrolled in
> the
> > 'Artists Workfare' system rapidly find themselves
> in
> > a humanistic hell of trying to 'teach' (via a
> > pedagogical approach) Art to Kids that have
> already
> > been 'turned off' to learning. Teachers should
> teach
> > the crafts of Art and Artists should explain thier
> > work. Art making and Art teaching are two very
> > separate crafts."
> >
> > Where to begin... There are many things that we
> > educators get right, but the teaching of creative
> > practice is not one of them.
>
> Creative Practice can not be taught; only the
> attendant crafts can.
>
> Art Schools are an oxymoron idea.
>
>
> It is a difficult
> > balance when one is forced to, say, offer an
> > objective grade for a poem. There is tremendous
> > pressure to quantify the creative process, and
> this
> > is where we go terribly wrong. Nothing kills
> > creativity faster than a pragmatic pedagogy. The
> > longer I teach, and the more rubrics I design, the
> > more troubled I become about what I might actually
> be
> > teaching...
> >
>
> The wise teacher learns,...from the student.
>
> > >>Lastly: "Tragically Art Professionals do not
> > criticize themselves nor thier peers. They are
> afraid
> > of the withdrawl of 'funding'. This fear of 'lost
> > revenues' results in a programming approach that
> does
> > not 'improve' over time."
>
> Art Professionals are not Artists. They must
> "profess" to understand Art.
> They have fear of criticizing themselves on the
> ability to "understand Art".
> The communities understanding of Art can not improve
> without "criticism" of the "Professors".
>
> >
> > I both agree and disagree with the first
> statement.
> > I think that there are artists
>
> ( Artist do not give a damn what critics say)
>
> only critics need to have us beleive that what they
> say matters to the makers of Art.
>
> out there who are
> > willing to engage in a critical dialog, who will
> not
> > fall apart if their work is not received well by
> > their audience, but at present, at least in this
> > community, they are not always talking to each
> > other. Understand that I grew up here, so I have
> > seen the various push/pull developments of our
> arts
> > community over the years.
>
> And does it matter?
>
> The rise and fall of art
> > crawls (and rise again). The full Wyman building,
> > the empty Wyman...
>
> That is the nature of all "business". The Crawls are
> not Art; they are "art business". Lots and lots of
> "art decor" has been sold in the art crawls; but it
> all comes down to a "business" culture. It
> unfortunate is toxic to many Artists( Sam).
>
> I think that we as a community
> > are most successful in developing dialog when we
> > actively engage each other in discussing the art,
> > but for a long time, at least IMHO, many openings
> > became more about the party than the art.
>
> We can only blame the "Art Professional" for that
> course of action. It is they that measure Art by the
> "party". The heavy weight serious "Art Patron" is
> never seen at the "openinings". Hint hint, art is
> seen in quiet solitude.
>
> >
> > I like that you ended on an optimistic note. I
> want
> > to believe that we can change this situation, but
> it
> > will take a few more of us to step out of our
> comfort
> > zones, be vulnerable, and actually engage in
> > discussions.
>
> I have made discussion of art in Minnesota an "art
> form".
>
> How long before the "Reggies" figure out Coyote Art.
> What will it mean when there is an art form you can
> not cage? Crate? Contain? Own?
>
> Do think about this last statement!
>
>
> I admit that for a long time I held
> > back because, well, it's not just funding we have
> to
> > worry about, here. We are a small community. Our
> > jobs and contacts are all connected in very
> > unexpected ways. Say the wrong thing to the wrong
> > person, expose our ignorance in the wrong company,
> > and, well, those of us who live here know well
> that
> > there are more kinds of ice than that formed by
> > freezing water.
>
> To be a "great artist" you must be brave. If you
> fear the knives in the back you live on your knees.
> I die standing up; but I am a very "loud" dead.
>
> >
> > Regardless, I have decided that for me, at least,
> > fear is no longer an option. Thanks for taking
> time
> > to engage those of us who meet here. I look
> forward
> > to further exchanges,
> >
> > Lesli
>
> coyote infinity
One of the points that I, as a Minnesota Artist, have tried to make here on the forums is that the "state" of the Artists Community in Minnesota is so fouled with self service career gamesmanship that even this "new" medium is corupted as a "spin" venue for the continued spewing of the "glad tidings" of a well "funded" arts scene relative to national standards. When what we have here in River City is a tragicly "mediocre and gutless" mob of "game players" with work that exhibits only the semblence of being interested in "investigateing new ground" in Art. Given that we have "heavy weight" institutions in the form of the MCAD, Uof M and a gaggle of small liberal Arts colleges what we get is tragically so limited in vision that one wonders if it would not be a good thing to have the "artists assembly-line" undergo some quality review.
My "Coyote" work is being appreciated across the net by thoughtful art investigators while here in my "homeland", I the "Artist" am reviled and maligned.
The recent offline comments and exchanges lead me to be concerned that this wonderful opportunity for Minnesota Artists be presented to the non minnesota world as forward looking and inventive artists is being lost in the name "NICE".
I fully intend to this year use this wonderful opportunity provided by the McKnight Foundation to engage the global artists that look forward to the new possibilities of this medium.
jrl
Message was edited by: Jimmy longoria at Feb 2, 2006 6:15 AM
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