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Topic: Coyote Art
Replies: 111   Pages: 8   Last Post: Oct 7, 2005 10:05 PM by: Jimmy longoria

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jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 17, 2004 8:14 AM
  Reply

> Sup Jimmy? It seems that "stupid" and "smart" are
> the latest contemporaneous political combatants.
> This smart thing stared me in the face, as I may
> have said previously, several years ago when sitting
> in a closed lecture on the Modern era. At one of
> the last weekly gatherings the "professor" said that
> something was "smart" and, "you know, it's so smart
> to be smart!"
>
> That turned my crank, my gears. I wondered since,
> just how smart a smart person really is? Are they
> smart like a plumber? Can they crawl around on their
> knees while working with their hands, and correctly
> couple a natural gas line so that smart people can
> sleep? (I'm not a plumber) Can a smart person
> identify a stupid person? And if so, to what end?
> What if smart people grouped themselves together?
> What good could come of that? Can smart people
> e identify other smart people? Or do they tolerate
> stupid toadies only? And what role does
> condescension play in the effervescence of this
> "tolerance"?


I Just love google!!!


a kind of pain such as that caused by a wound or a burn or a sore
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


ache: be the source of pain
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


showing mental alertness and calculation and resourcefulness
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


chic: elegant and stylish; "chic elegance"; "a smart new dress"; "a suit of voguish cut"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


bright: characterized by quickness and ease in learning; "some children are brighter in one subject than another"; "smart children talk earlier than the average"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


fresh: improperly forward or bold; "don't be fresh with me"; "impertinent of a child to lecture a grownup"; "an impudent boy given to insulting strangers"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


dapper: marked by smartness in dress and manners; "a dapper young man"; "a jaunty red hat"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

I know that I am very smart: I cause an ache narrow confines of the brains of the stupid of our commujnity.

But I think what your source refers to is the "fashionable". I agree with the observation. Most of what the "in" crowd cheers is just "smart fashion". And you are right to make a allusion to a "plumber". Very smart! I recently had to call a very smart plumber when my basement drain backed up. On his cell phone he asked me three questions; put me on hold and called another smart plumber"mr rooter" who called me while I was waiting for the first smart plumber; he asked me three questions, and said he could be at my door in three minutes. He hung up and the first plumber pick up the line and said that that should do it. At the same instant the mr. rooter tapped at my back door. He walked right in with a masssive tool box and proceeeded to my basement; looked around and then open up the metal box and connected a steel claw to a iron tenacle and began to snake it into the drain; 15 minutes later he showed me the clump of roots from my drain. He indicated that it most likely came from big elm that my neighbor had to cut down; that when the tree was stressed by the cut down it must have sent out "runners" looking for a "riverbed" to start another shoot up tree! He took me outside and pointed in the general area that he thought the snake had reached. "Look for a sprout in the spring!"

Smart guys!!! Very smart. I gladly paid my $150.00!!!

I felt very smart in haveing called my local plumber; he did not waste my or his time by comming out and "looking" at the problem. He just asked me the right questions and came to a conclusion; and immediately connected me to the right service guy; who also did not waste time; he asked me three questions and knew exactly what to do.

Smart very Smart!!

So Bob what do youthink are the three right questions to ask about the MASP?

Jimmy Longoria
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

>
> It is possible that we all in our own way are smart,
> but there are some who feel smarter.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 22, 2004 2:47 PM
  Reply

The problem with philosophy

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 22, 2004 3:44 PM
  Reply

> Bowling? I try not to watch contemporary film since
> its content is so predictable. As most average
> intellects I can decipher the plot in two minutes or
> less.
>
> Nietzsche rules what? He died insane which was the
> obvious starting point for not only his progeny but
> also every murdering dictator in the 20th century.
>
> The problem with philosophy is that it peddles ideas.
> A truly beautiful book is any that critiques 19th
> century philosophers against the record of history.
> Which is why in our postmodern era there is no
> history, truth, logic, empiricism, evil, etc., in
> the orb of the smart. As Stalin said, which is
> analogous, "No man, no problem." In our times, no
> common sense, no problem.
>
> Look, if Nietzsche ran the world there would be no
> plumbing, no medicine, no baseball, no art: Nothing
> from nothing. (Aristotle, I think.)

Perhaps we shall all go Bowling? "If you meet
budda along the way kill him?" What does that mean anyway?

Hay Bob I attended a "luncheon" where the future of funding was discussed; it seems to most people that Art money is moving to the Suburban "Green Ring".

Political power in the state also seems headed to the Suburbs as well.

Another study (by a Liberal Think Tank) indicates the burbs are increasingly "racially isolated".

I munched on funky MM desert bars as the discussion got more and more shrill. I only became concerned when a group of some of most dedicated social service advocates talked about the cynicism of the "Public Sector" toward the poor. Call it deza vu but suddenly I heard some of the Pre Depression talk from my history classes. Could we suddenly wake up and find ourselves in the same milleuge as just before the Socialists came to power. Remember it was the "excesses" of the ruling class that gave credibilty to those "philosophies" you detest so much.

I made a nice contact for a mural project in south Minneapolis.

coyote infinity
chicano artist de minnesota

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 29, 2004 12:14 AM
  Reply

disconcerting

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 29, 2004 9:16 AM
  Reply

> Hey Jimmy, bowling just popped into my head as I
> remembered a movie I missed with a fat no account
> actor at a bowling alley. And what most of us think
> as original surfaced somewhere in the 19th century in
> the mind of a no account syphilitic philosopher.
> Who, oddly, is mimicked interminably much to the
> delight of smart people; people who should know of
> the horrors said thoughts have visited on other
> hapless misanthropes. But what the hell, all is
> gray, right is wrong, good is bad, there is no
> truth, everything in my gaze is a construction, and
> I alone have the gift of the view.
>
> I forgot what MASP stands for? However, I would ask,
> is it new, in the orb of art, does it make me think,
> differently, and, does it meet my requirement of
> appearing anti-art? Further, if it follows a trend,
> it's out. If there is a globe-trotting career
> attached, it's out.
>
> Spontaneous, authentic, unconstructed. That's what I
> would look for, and I would not find it. What panels
> are seeking are the choices that will first enhance
> their vision and secondly the others' perception
> within their milieu. I would look for "stupid" art.
> I'm sick of smartys. I'm sick of reading smarty
> commentary. I'm sick of smarty walking. I'm sick
> of smarty inside giggling. As more of us seem to
> be.
>
> People move around. I moved from NYC in '77 to an
> older inner ring suburb with access within 15 minutes
> to almost anywhere in the metropolitan area. I like
> it. Older house, stick built in '58, fairly
> inexpensive living, art funding, schmart funding.
> They can stuff if where the sun don't shine. The
> people that will scream the loudest are those
> depending on the handout. The plumber is performing
> his art in the basement, soldering, wrenching,
> cementing the pipes so we can move.
>
> I just thumbed through the new Flash Art, and
> frankly, the plumbing in my basement looks
> refreshing. There is too much art, too many artists,
> to many bums looking for a ride, too many careers,
> too much art, and too many fakes. I have no
> suggestions, only, stop funding it. It's like
> hornets in the garbage in August. If I read one more
> smart interview with Damien Hirst......I'm puking.
> Now there's a career!
>
> The political fawning over the poor will always be
> with us. I wonder why? The hand wringing over
> slipping political grasp of the will to power will be
> with us until the ubiquitous "next" election. Not to
> worry, we have a republic, if we can keep it.
>
> The inequities between classes in the mid 19th
> century certainly gave rise to a balancing series of
> political ideas. And rightly so. However, this is
> 2005, and much has been set straight. Perfection?
> No. But only a utopian would hold out for heaven on
> earth. Changes are certain to continue as a vibrant
> culture ebbs and flows. You get a little, and give
> little. And then try to go out and do some
> painting.
>
> It is not myself that finds "the dream" so
> disconcerting, it is others before me, far more
> important and practiced intellectually who broke the
> trail. I but tell what I have read. You can't build
> a successful society by sitting down on the job,
> drunk, pulling a lousy hated government draft.(the
> old Soviet Union)
>
> What is disconcerting is that in our "political" art
> display there were so few who had apparently done
> their homework, and so many that were so terribly
> miseducated.

God do I love you Bob.

You have come to a similar conclusion I have. Stop the funding of "Artists Lifestyles". That is what is wrong with all of the work offered as art. It is the slufted off skin of the "Artistic Life". It is insulting to advance the "bullshit" work that is only "interesting" to the self serving "Artists Panel". Who are they anyway? An insider club of self serving "crafts people". MASP is a typo of mine. MAEP continues to be a profound embarassment for true artists in Minnesota. I have given up argueing with other artists about the bullshit. I have simply made my voice availble to the backrooms of funders. And if you can beleive this; I am doing it very quietly and gently. I hope to become "effective". Lets all get real; the MAEP program as it is today made the decision to alocate over $60,000.00 to give a bunch of "artists" the venue to "politically belch". And they will have thier great historic "expressions" inturred in the foundation of the new wing of the MIA. Think about that. After the cacaroaches evolve into a civilization and begin to "study" our ruins they will find the "fodder" that was interred in a "temple" foundation. What will speculate that it all was? Or will they consider it the material of a sacrafice to an odd diety? The God of Stupidity? Come on it was all cocktail group masterbation; real politics happens out in the communities where the pressing issues are debated and allowed to form the political will of the people.
The Debutante Art Party that is the MAEP needs to end. We need to use every prescious resource to to advance the true "vlaues" of our culture. Although I did vote for each everyone of the current panelists( really I did pick the one that won) I have no faith in the MAEP process because it is not in keeping with the political processes of our society at large. None of the votes are recorded. They public who voted for thier representative does not how that person represented them. The process by which proposals are reviewed is not consistant between individuals. The process is manipulated by the staff. If any government board did same thing Mike Hatch would be there with questions. But the our Artists community is so politcally appathetic or afraid that they do nothing to reform the process.

Oddly Bob we may have to wait for another generation of "donors" to step up to the funding challenge and quietly retire the MAEP.

But onto more fun things. What a show at a Bowling alley? I am starting another series of paintings using "barns" as a back ground to "Chicanos in Agriculture". Do you have a dozen or so of your barn paintings you would consider sharing an unusual exhibit space with "The Chicano Artist de Minnesota"?

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 29, 2004 10:21 AM
  Reply

I think we need to retire the whole concept of "outsider artists". It seems like the outsider art movement is nothing more than a bastard extension of the mainstream artworld. Still trying to get attention from the "insiders". Sure, the gap has closed in some ways in regards to social and economic classes. Its still a joke on the poor. We have a new art class already, more liken to the "untouchables" of India. Graffiti art is under this class I feel. Go nail your paintings to something, and they can pay to take them down or arrest you. Since its pretty much illegal to put up as much as a peice of paper on any pole, building, ect... anywhere in minneapolis anyways.

We are in an age of artist lifestyles, or whoevers lifestyles, being funded and then viewed. We have created our own doom. They wiil trick us regardless. Every advancement has a huge price. Sure, women are in the work force (albeit, underpaid still), but the joke there is that now we can't survive and raise a family on one income like (I have heard) we could previously. Now both people have to work. And we pay others to raise our children and then wonder what went wrong. Find a way to remove the MAEP, and they wiil find a way to turn it around on you. haha. But I am being pessimistic.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 29, 2004 1:18 PM
  Reply

Just read a note that the average home size 50 years ago was 1100 square feet for 4.6 people. Today it is 2100 square feet for 2.3 people. Just think of how much more plumbing that means. Things are truly getting better.

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 12:50 AM
  Reply

Well, art has arrived to where it is and we can't back things up. Government funding of art is like the government building of ethanol plants. Interfering with markets. Even as the production of one gallon of ethanol consumes more BTUs then the ethanol contains, it sells corn. And so, even meager funding of the arts produces a false market. What government puts in merely empowers those already in place. Airlines, farmers, investors, pork producers, automobile companies, should not be supported by taxpayers. Studebaker crapped out. Good riddance. What might the arts be today if they had remained untouched? They may have become more American. Instead we have a Trabant, smoking down the highway, tailpipe dragging, with the driver screaming that he wants two. And we get another worn out idea. America is a colonial empire. Yawn. And my portrait of Lenin under doo-doo is panned; even as it meets the fecal requirement of potty art, potty art has conveniently morphed so its parodies fall silent. The kiss of the smart.

As an example of how little serious consideration is given to any question except the correct question:
Remember how I was lectured last month on how journalism school arrives at the use of certain language? And how my question was considered trivial? Well, Thomas Friedman, foreign affairs editor of the NYT, no less, two days ago agreed with my analysis. So I guess he, along with Christopher Hitchens, are stupid as myself. Even as murder continues. Even as the inciting of murder continues. Let us rather move on to the viewing of art. And it's not that "I" am "right" about something. It's that "something" is "right" and art would look different today if artists not only recognized there is "right" but were able to recognize it when it appears.

Could MAEP exist on its own? I think not. It would not get a foot in the door of a major museum without the funding. MAEP has a certain legitimacy having been around for decades. It's democratic and performs on behalf of artists by artists. I guess a hundred grand is cheap considering what things cost. You gotta be smart to get picked, I guess. You just can't go out in the garage and start painting. Who do you think you are? Even so, no one can stop you from painting.

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 2:06 AM
  Reply
Untitled 0.jpg (55.2 K)

enjoy it while it lasts.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 10:09 AM
  Reply

Nice, Gabe.

I don't fundamentally disagree with you, Bob. But more tax money is wasted on a handful of obsolete fighter planes or tanks than on the arts in an entire year. The irony of course is that by far more of that pork goes to the "red" states who supposedly share your distate for government waste. In this context, your railing against funding for the arts seems all out of proportion.

And to your "kiss of the smart" I'd like to offer the "righteousness of the saved." Their absolute certainty that the world is 6000 years old is only symbolic of their lack of interest in gathering evidence. Which one is more damaging is a matter of taste I guess.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 3:34 PM
  Reply

> Nice, Gabe.
>
> I don't fundamentally disagree with you, Bob. But
> more tax money is wasted on a handful of obsolete
> fighter planes or tanks than on the arts in an entire
> year. The irony of course is that by far more of
> that pork goes to the "red" states who supposedly
> share your distate for government waste. In this
> context, your railing against funding for the arts
> seems all out of proportion.
>
> And to your "kiss of the smart" I'd like to offer the
> "righteousness of the saved." Their absolute
> certainty that the world is 6000 years old is only
> symbolic of their lack of interest in gathering
> evidence. Which one is more damaging is a matter of
> taste I guess.


I fundamentally disagree with both of you.

Bob, the MEAP is not "democratic" : you do not know how your representative votes. You can not reelect him/her based on how they voted. Not a democratic process.

Sam follow the money: the bullet contract is in the billions! The Company is here in Minnesota, and is well invested in by "funds". Directly behind the Foundation's money!

Forget about tax dollars look at private funds that go into grants and funding for the Arts.

coyote infinity

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 6:37 PM
  Reply

"Smart comes in all kinds of different ways." - G.W. Bush

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 11:28 PM
  Reply

Sam, it's irrelevant what is spent on different parts of the Federal budget. Defense included. Which, if I remember, is around 17 percent. What I have always maintained is that art could move on its own merits. It's irrelevant to which states pork is delivered if all pork was cut off. Business should stand on its own merit, its own products or services delivered cheaper and faster than its competition in an open market. And the posers get the axe. Saying that something can be stuffed where the sun don't shine, is not railing. It's a figure of speech. If someone wants to believe the world is 6000 years old, so be it. They're not chopping off heads, and that is progress. Life is too short to worry about someone's harmless beliefs.

I was comparing a plumber to an artist in terms of the usefulness of the finished product to society. Art is a luxury, something that cultures do with more frequency as they become successful. The size of a house actually indicates just how successful our society has become.

It's not moral to take from others and give to oneself. That's Lenin speaking. People cannot be made equal. It's impossible. Lenin's problem was that he couldn't contain his envy, and so he spread it around. And it raises its ugly head constantly yet today. Life's a predicament and soon over. Lenin's siren song bombed.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 11:38 PM
  Reply

Last time I looked, those professors you constantly complain about aren't chopping off any heads either. And evaluating an individual by their use to society and progress by material comfort? I think I begin to understand...

Bob Schulz

Posts: 416
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Registered: Aug 15, 2003
Re: Coyote Art
Posted: Dec 30, 2004 11:50 PM
  Reply

Jimmy, I was referring to the voting of the assembly for the panel members. True, we never know which members vote for what art or the influence management exerts. That's the secrecy quotient about which I am ambivalent.

If we knew what went on, the arguments for or against a proposal, the arm twisting and convincing that must go on if a decision is to be reached, MAEP may be a more divisive than constructive force. On the other hand, I wish I knew what was said if I submitted a proposal. I can take it. Like in this site. We're not babies, right? So, I'm conflicted over the secrecy rule. And why should the panelists, who serve selflessly, put themselves under the wrath of a rejected artist? No one would want to serve under fire.

Somebody has to make the bullets. And investments are part of any business. It is unavoidable. Somebody has to build the dams, gather the wood, grow the food, plumb the pipes, build the houses, invest money. What can I say? Life is a predicament, and soon over. And then we can go discuss it with our fathers in the life hereafter. And that's why atheists are so afraid of dying, dad is up there tapping his foot, waiting. The virgins are down here, dad is up there. Waiting.

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