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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148 Pages: 77 Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 12, 2003 11:28 AM

> Thanks Ann, for the insight. Sorry for being naughty.
>

>
> Ironically, I was out journaling on these topics
> today because I was particularly bothered by a grant
> award I heard about.
>
> I agree - unlike NY or LA, MN relies on grant funding
> to make art possible. The culture here is
> fundamentally different. There is an overwhelming
> sentiment in the MN population that enjoys the idea
> of an "Arts State" as part of our "Quality of Life".
> We are willing to endure higher taxes and make modest
> personal charitible contributions to arts
> organizations because it is their job to make art
> possible here - they have the expertise. And that's
> not sexy. It's practical. It's Minnesotan.

>
> It's terribly civilized, logical, and you'd think it
> would work *really well. The artists are free
> (somewhat) from the marketplace and the consumers get
> to be "nice" - they don't accept or reject art, they
> just passively fund it cause, well, it's "nice". It
> effectively removes MN artists and the general
> population from the vibrant and often messy economic
> process of having art in a community. And so you wind
> up with hotdish, I guess?

I love you! It is passive/aggressive. And it destroys the drive to excellence of those artists it benefits the most. Fallon's review of the "Grotto" perhaps illustrates what is wrong with the "hotdish" approach to art support. The artist; given great funding, platform and attention produces bad art. The critic is compelled to "like" it in spite of the certain knowledge that it is bad art.

>
> Another issue - having our money filtered cleanly
> through arts organizations forces them to perform a
> balancing act: support local artists or bring in
> "groundbreaking" work from other parts of the
> country/world.
>

In rural terms it is like bringing in a Champion sire and parading him through the grounds and hoping that insemination magically occurs via imagery.

Breeding after all is far to messy and gross for the MN mind set.

> I believe that part of the mission of an arts
> institution is to bring to their residents new art
> and new viewpoints - which can mean bringing in
> national/international artists. How often do they buy
> into the fame of NY and LA - picking exhibitions
> that bring prestige to their organization, allowing
> them to ride on the coat tails of the "sexy beast"?
> Do they feel forced into bringing "sexy" shows to
> Minneapolis in order to appease their well-to-do
> donors who like a big famous/fancy party - donors who
> could easily give their money to another institution?
> Everyone likes to feel sexy and contemporary.

Not the Coyote. Glitz offends me. And there is effectively no "contemporary" . Much of what is brought to the MN scene is second string to its first venue.

I do not blame the Institutions; it is the artists that sit on the advisory committees who are to blame for the decision to make MN a backwater stop on the path to global fame. Too many are sold on the idea of "networking" their way to NY/LA/SF etc.

We need to call for "integrity" in who one is as an artist. If you are from MN then make art "of" MN.

>
> How often is this at the expense of regional artists?
> Can it be viewed as such?
>
> I know these statements won't make me very popular...
> I guess I am a little dis-illusioned with the grant
> process right now.
>
> Responses, anyone?
>
> PS - Old Man Coyote, where have you gone? (Sanopi)

My personal life has been very full( divorces) my professional life has been disruptive( MAEP)
my artist life has been self indulgent( a New painting done!!!)

But you all have spoken the words I would have ( coyote en vapor)

con hermanidad
Jaime

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 12, 2003 11:42 AM

On the unpopular art of elephant hunting in a hotdish state the has plum run out of money!

Junk all art funding and start again to support the building of a "Arts Industry in Minnesota". The AIM program. A ten year funding of efforts that create markets and venues for the self sustaining activities of Artists state wide. Require harsh accountability of utilization of dollars and statistical validation of equitable distribution of resources and benefits.

Require that the system improve through a quality program on a quarterly basis with wedsite reporting to the artists of MN.

I know I am unpopular but who cares; I am an artist,

coyote 256

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 12, 2003 9:40 PM

This site could be a catalyst for a strong arts industry. A couple really smart modifications that make it easy for collectors to log on (perhaps an Amazon like function: collectors who purchased Jon Doe's art also bought A, B, C...) combined with an actual bricks and mortar gallery or informational building (with selected works and high-speed computers hooked up to the site for free. Free coffee too, yeah, that's the ticket!) could work quite well.

At this point, perhaps this should move to somewhere in the economic realities section?

Sam

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 3:36 AM

> Fallon's review of the "Grotto" perhaps illustrates
> what is wrong with the "hotdish"
> approach to art support. The critic is compelled
> to "like" it in spite of the
> certain knowledge that it is bad art.

Questions resulting from Fallon's review have been replaying themselves in my brain for weeks now. Keep in mind as I ask these questions that I am not as well-read on aesthetics/valuation of art as I might be... but Fallon's review presupposses that there is such a thing as "bad art", and it follows that there is probably also "good art".

How does one get to this point? Seriously, folks? Does anyone out there believe that there is such a thing as "good art" or "bad art"? Help me out with this.

> In rural terms it is like bringing in a Champion sire
> and parading him through the grounds and hoping that
> insemination magically occurs via imagery.

Ha! Well... actually, after I waltz out of the Walker on Free Thursdays I usually feel impregnated with all sorts of fabulous thoughts and ideas. Maybe there's something to this.

> If you are from MN then make art "of" MN.

This idea quickly becomes problematic... more on that later. I have to form a better argument.

> My personal life has been very full( divorces) my
> professional life has been disruptive( MAEP)
> my artist life has been self indulgent( a New
> painting done!!!)

Sorry to hear your news... I had gathered that you and your wife had a happy home together in Hopkins (guess I made this assumption from previous posts). I hope it is all for the best.

> con hermanidad
> Jaime

(hermanidad = little sister? Dispenseme, me he olvidado de la mayoría de mi español...)

Lauren

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 4:02 AM

> This site could be a catalyst for a strong arts
> industry.

I think that is a big part of what McKnight/Walker are trying to do with mnartists.org.

> A couple really smart modifications that
> make it easy for collectors to log on (perhaps an
> Amazon like function: collectors who purchased Jon
> Doe's art also bought A, B, C...) combined with an
> actual bricks and mortar gallery or informational
> building (with selected works and high-speed
> computers hooked up to the site for free. Free
> coffee too, yeah, that's the ticket!) could work
> quite well.

This idea is awesome. A few months ago I stumbled on some great (free!) open source software that does exactly what you're talking about (Not that it can't be programmed from scratch by the fabulous techies of mnartists.org - but hey, why reinvent the wheel?)

And hey, I'm all about free coffee.

lauren

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 13, 2003 10:18 AM

"How does one get to this point? Seriously, folks? Does anyone out there believe that there is such a thing as "good art" or "bad art"? Help me out with this."

Most definitely. Though I just woke up and haven't had my coffee yet, I will give it a shot. All humans and probably most living forms on some level must constantly make value judgments about their environment in order to survive. This food is good, that shelter is bad, etc. The ones that refuse to or are bad at making distinctions get eaten by a giant hippo after wandering into its mouth thinking that it is a cave.

This idea dovetails nicely with the philosophical maxim that you only know something because of its opposite. That is, we only know what cold is because there is hot. (Or, in the words of Save Ferris, You Gotta Be Cruel to be Kind. Or in the guise of western religion, if there is God, there must be a devil as well.) So, if there is "good" art, there is "bad" art as well. I actually prefer to think of good or bad sculpture, painting, etc. I think it leads to more intelligent observations.

Admittedly, this is very western and if you ascribe to something like Zen things may be different. I actually very much like Zen and it works well for making work. What it can tell us about how to see the works from a very unZenlike culture, I don't know.

So, in order to navigate the world and the art community, we develop the ability to critique our environment so we don't accidently wander into a Yanni concert and die.

Sam

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 2:09 PM

> So, in order to navigate the world and the art
> community, we develop the ability to critique our
> environment so we don't accidently wander into a
> Yanni concert and die.
>
> Sam

I would like to make a slight correction on your observation about "death". Yanni concert attendees do escape total death by slipping into a semi-conscious state called "Art opening Reception Syndrome" where they seem alert and semi-informed but say inane things. I believe that some states have taken to denying art funding to individuals know to have Yanni recording playing at their open studio visitations. I support this kind of budget cut back adjustment!

c4

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 14, 2003 2:29 PM

>
> How does one get to this point? Seriously, folks?
> Does anyone out there believe that there is such a
> thing as "good art" or "bad art"? Help me out with
> this.

Step into my classroom young lady.

Behold three clay bricks. Inspect them and chose the better brick and one that is lesser.

Done? Why is one better than the other and another less than the other two?

Oh! One has fewer flaws!
Or! One has poorer coloration!

Now pick the most interesting brick.
The least interesting.

Done? Why is one brick more interesting, and is it the one with the least flaws? Why is this brick the least interesting?

Can you pick the stronger brick?
The "brickier" brick. The one that is least a brick?

I am not kidding here. Everything with discernable characteristic can be compared to another of it's "kind". It is in the recognition of "kind" and "characteristic" that there is a challenge on the validity of comparistion.

Remember that "good" and "bad" are modifier of the word "art". When you define by characteristic that something is "art" you immediately have the means to apply the modifiers; good and bad. They are subjective values and relative to circumstance.

The role of critic is to understand and explain the application. Which Mr. Fallon did very well. Although he did refrain from criticizing the "choice" to exhibit "bad" art.

When great writers move into criticism it is well to notice that they "place" the subject in the historical and social locale in which the art is presented or and made.

We seem to be shy of acknowledging that the art is produced here and for local consumption. I think it would go a long way if critics acknowledged where the art is produced and then held it accountable to local measurements of accomplishment. The application of good and bad would be clear to all because of context.

coyote 256

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 15, 2003 12:50 PM

I've been away from the forums for a few days--this is a wonderful exchange! I am sure that mnartists will evolve. There are several different directions of possible change. These kinds of discussions make the merits of those several possibilities much clearer. Thank you for your great insights, and some excellent concrete ideas.

I'll come back to this when somewhat less harried--it's been, for me, a hell of a coupla weeks. Working on some fresh content--hope it will prove interesting.

AK

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 23, 2003 1:24 AM

Dear all-- New review(s) up. What think?

AK

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2003 2:37 PM

Would the participants in the discussion on grants-supported vs sales-supported artworlds have any objection to my gathering up the discussion and posting it as an article on the front page? I think it would be an excellent way to introduce the topic.

Please let me know. Of course all your statements will be credited to you.

AK

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2003 9:41 PM

Sounds fine to me. I thought I was going to read your message and be scolded for not commenting on the new articles yet. There's just so much to do...

Sam

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 26, 2003 11:25 PM

Ann,
Go right ahead. (I had to go back and check on what I wrote first to make sure I wasn't in too much trouble!)

BTW - I've been meaning to read the articles and post - but finals are swiftly closing in on me! Perhaps I will weigh in later (didn't want you to feel ignored).

Lauren

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 27, 2003 10:02 AM

Thanks, guys. No scolding here--I'm also awash in end-of-term stuff.

I'll try to get to this in the next couple of days. When I have a piece, I'll email it to all participants who are quoted, for yr approval.

AK

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003

Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: May 10, 2003 6:08 AM

Aw c'mon . . . . lotsa new stuff! Am now preparing the feature on you guys, for the new focus. Sorry took so long. A concentrated wave of small-to-medium disasters broke on the shore recently, and I've been picking up the flotsam.

What do you think of the Skin show? (It's all available through the website link.) Same or diff than Fallon? Anyone read Roofwalker? How about installation as an artform? Love? Hate?
AK

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