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Topic: Dialogue
Replies: 384 Pages: 26 Last Post: Feb 13, 2006 10:37 PM by: Ray Rolfe

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jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Oct 13, 2003 11:04 AM

> > I have great difficulty rating the quality of art.
> I
> > hope that there are people out there in the world
> who......
>
> That is the point of this dialogue. I have been
> elected to sit with six others and do precisely that;
> rate the quality of the art offered for exhibition.
>
> When I spoke at the annual meeting I said I would
> make it harder for artists to exhibit.
>
> Does it not mean to you that the 3/4 of the people in
> attendance voted for me to change the level of
> quality that has been exhibited? I am asking here if
> that is what happened. And what does it mean to me
> in the process of selection of art to be exhibited.
> Do I go along with "historical" line of the work or
> do I engage in the struggle for change?
>
> >..... can do it better than me. Art, and the
> appreciation
> > of art is SO SUBJECTIVE.
>
> I respect your statement. But if you are an artist
> as I am then you practice your assembled crafts out
> of a known and established tradition. In all art the
> tradition of the craft becomes self evident in each
> execution. Fundamental understanding of the
> mechanical process of craft application makes it easy
> to distinguish between the wonderful work of a child
> and a Miro. Spontaneous creativity is the nature of
> the child, but studied and mastered technique is the
> mark of the Artist.
>
> I should state here that I do in fact work with
> children an am a true fan of the beauty and power of
> their work.
>
> But few children are Artist with the capital A.
> >
> > What is great art to me, may not speak to you.
> This
> > is a question that I have asked myself my whole
> life.
> > What makes great art, great? Is it the craft? Is
> it
> > the content? Is it the content within the history
> and
> > culture? Will people 100 years from now
> understand,
> > respect or appreciate it?
>
> After hundreds, and I do mean hundreds of hours of
> guiding children through museums, I can tell you
> that great pieces do in fact have impact on kids that
> do not have the knowledge that one piece is
> historically or aesthetically superior to another.
>
> I once stood in awe as a group of kids from the
> barrio debated as to which painting was better;
> Picasso's Blue Guitar or Orosco's Zapata. I was
> floored to understand that they covered all of your
> categories of evaluation, and then tossed all of
> their dialogue for a simple test, they stood
> equidistant from each work and declared Picasso's
> painting more moving than Zapata in the door way
> with dead Mexicans( content more relevant to
> themselves than the Blue Guitar).
>
> They did go on through museum with critical eyes and
> were disdainful to "mediocre" artists(all of the work
> in the Art Institute of Chicago was first rate at the
> time). It taught me that it is possible to utilize
> the power of observation to assess quality. It does
> require discipline and integrity to trust one's own
> judgment at the fundamental level of human experience
> and understand the art in front of us. We can all do
> it; but we must forgo our bias.
>
> We MAEP board members must look at every entry with
> that same critical eye of the kids twenty years ago
> in Chicago.
>
> I have attended my first meeting. I have seen the
> submissions. What I need to know from my fellow
> artists is are the artists of Minnesota prepared to
> raise their own standards of their own chosen area of
> investigation to a higher level?
>
> Should I be hyper critical?
>
>
> Look at great works of
> > literature. What makes them great? Revealing human
> > nature, telling human stories that stand the test
> of
> > time. Why? Because we are all human.
>
> We are not all human yet. White Women are paid 70%
> of what a White male earns for the same work. White
> Women are paid 115% more than Black men for the same
> work. All other ethic and racially identifiable
> groups are paid less then Black women doing the same
> work.
>
> My entire life I have always run into individuals
> that inform me that I can not define what I do as
> Art. It has to do with the color of my face. I not
> quite a human, because others do not accept what I
> call art as Art.
>
> It is going to be interesting to see what happens now
> that I have been allowed in the gate.
>
> >
> > Across color and cultural differences we share the
> > same emotions, and motivation, and desires.
> Passion,
> > anger, love, hate, sadness, joy, lust, pain, fear,
> > beauty, truth... etc. I think that when an artist
> > can reach beyond themselves and express a more
> > universal message that is great art. And when they
> > express this message they use their own visual
> > language. In some cases not everyone will
> understand.
> >
> I will agree with you that great Art is not
> understood. It takes time for us to weed out the
> "mediocre". I do not believe in the idea of the
> universal message. We do not all have the same thing
> to say. Great literature goes through periods of
> fashion and neglect. I do believe most western and
> European cultures produce similar literature but I
> think it more about the transference of motif through
> generations rather than a universality of concepts.
> I am a Coyote Clown; I am radically different from a
> western humorist. My performance is in the medium
> of my contemporary culture but its form is
> precolumbian. The intent of my work naegates all
> the is believed of Art at this time. Is it time for
> Change?
> It will become a challenge for all who experience
> this piece to escape the limitations of western
> thought to arrive in the Preconquest mindset.
>
> Literature may no longer be meaningful. We live in
> time of super over information. The art of writing
> for extended reading may in fact be past.
> >
> > What makes great art great? Can anyone tell me?
>
>
> I can answer you. You.
>
> coyote cuatro
>
I have presented myself as a servant.
coyote 256

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,497
Registered: Jun 16, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Oct 15, 2003 12:12 AM

The
Seperatist
Fringe

Manipulates
Aggressive
Spectators

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Oct 15, 2003 2:16 AM

To quote from Cobain;

"Teenage angst has paid off well, now i'm board and old. Self apointed judges judge, more then they have sold. If she floats then she is not a witch like we had thought. A down payment on another one of Salams lots. SERVE THE SERVANTS oh no SERVE THE SERVANTS"

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Nov 25, 2003 5:23 PM

> > > I have great difficulty rating the quality of
> art.
> > I
> > > hope that there are people out there in the
> world
> > who......
> >
> > That is the point of this dialogue. I have been
> > elected to sit with six others and do precisely
> that;
> > rate the quality of the art offered for
> exhibition.
> >
> > When I spoke at the annual meeting I said I would
> > make it harder for artists to exhibit.
> >
> > Does it not mean to you that the 3/4 of the people
> in
> > attendance voted for me to change the level of
> > quality that has been exhibited? I am asking here
> if
> > that is what happened. And what does it mean to
> me
> > in the process of selection of art to be
> exhibited.
> > Do I go along with "historical" line of the work
> or
> > do I engage in the struggle for change?
> >
> > >..... can do it better than me. Art, and the
> > appreciation
> > > of art is SO SUBJECTIVE.
> >
> > I respect your statement. But if you are an
> artist
> > as I am then you practice your assembled crafts
> out
> > of a known and established tradition. In all art
> the
> > tradition of the craft becomes self evident in
> each
> > execution. Fundamental understanding of the
> > mechanical process of craft application makes it
> easy
> > to distinguish between the wonderful work of a
> child
> > and a Miro. Spontaneous creativity is the nature
> of
> > the child, but studied and mastered technique is
> the
> > mark of the Artist.
> >
> > I should state here that I do in fact work with
> > children an am a true fan of the beauty and power
> of
> > their work.
> >
> > But few children are Artist with the capital A.
> > >
> > > What is great art to me, may not speak to you.
> > This
> > > is a question that I have asked myself my whole
> > life.
> > > What makes great art, great? Is it the craft? Is
> > it
> > > the content? Is it the content within the
> history
> > and
> > > culture? Will people 100 years from now
> > understand,
> > > respect or appreciate it?
> >
> > After hundreds, and I do mean hundreds of hours of
> > guiding children through museums, I can tell you
> > that great pieces do in fact have impact on kids
> that
> > do not have the knowledge that one piece is
> > historically or aesthetically superior to another.
> >
> > I once stood in awe as a group of kids from the
> > barrio debated as to which painting was better;
> > Picasso's Blue Guitar or Orosco's Zapata. I was
> > floored to understand that they covered all of
> your
> > categories of evaluation, and then tossed all of
> > their dialogue for a simple test, they stood
> > equidistant from each work and declared Picasso's
> > painting more moving than Zapata in the door way
> > with dead Mexicans( content more relevant to
> > themselves than the Blue Guitar).
> >
> > They did go on through museum with critical eyes
> and
> > were disdainful to "mediocre" artists(all of the
> work
> > in the Art Institute of Chicago was first rate at
> the
> > time). It taught me that it is possible to
> utilize
> > the power of observation to assess quality. It
> does
> > require discipline and integrity to trust one's
> own
> > judgment at the fundamental level of human
> experience
> > and understand the art in front of us. We can all
> do
> > it; but we must forgo our bias.
> >
> > We MAEP board members must look at every entry
> with
> > that same critical eye of the kids twenty years
> ago
> > in Chicago.
> >
> > I have attended my first meeting. I have seen
> the
> > submissions. What I need to know from my fellow
> > artists is are the artists of Minnesota prepared
> to
> > raise their own standards of their own chosen area
> of
> > investigation to a higher level?
> >
> > Should I be hyper critical?
> >
> >
> > Look at great works of
> > > literature. What makes them great? Revealing
> human
> > > nature, telling human stories that stand the
> test
> > of
> > > time. Why? Because we are all human.
> >
> > We are not all human yet. White Women are paid
> 70%
> > of what a White male earns for the same work.
> White
> > Women are paid 115% more than Black men for the
> same
> > work. All other ethic and racially identifiable
> > groups are paid less then Black women doing the
> same
> > work.
> >
> > My entire life I have always run into individuals
> > that inform me that I can not define what I do as
> > Art. It has to do with the color of my face. I
> not
> > quite a human, because others do not accept what I
> > call art as Art.
> >
> > It is going to be interesting to see what happens
> now
> > that I have been allowed in the gate.
> >
> > >
> > > Across color and cultural differences we share
> the
> > > same emotions, and motivation, and desires.
> > Passion,
> > > anger, love, hate, sadness, joy, lust, pain,
> fear,
> > > beauty, truth... etc. I think that when an
> artist
> > > can reach beyond themselves and express a more
> > > universal message that is great art. And when
> they
> > > express this message they use their own visual
> > > language. In some cases not everyone will
> > understand.
> > >
> > I will agree with you that great Art is not
> > understood. It takes time for us to weed out the
> > "mediocre". I do not believe in the idea of the
> > universal message. We do not all have the same
> thing
> > to say. Great literature goes through periods of
> > fashion and neglect. I do believe most western
> and
> > European cultures produce similar literature but I
> > think it more about the transference of motif
> through
> > generations rather than a universality of concepts.
>
> > I am a Coyote Clown; I am radically different from
> a
> > western humorist. My performance is in the medium
> > of my contemporary culture but its form is
> > precolumbian. The intent of my work naegates all
> > the is believed of Art at this time. Is it time
> for
> > Change?
> > It will become a challenge for all who experience
> > this piece to escape the limitations of western
> > thought to arrive in the Preconquest mindset.
> >
> > Literature may no longer be meaningful. We live
> in
> > time of super over information. The art of
> writing
> > for extended reading may in fact be past.
> > >
> > > What makes great art great? Can anyone tell me?
> >
> >
> > I can answer you. You.
> >
> > coyote cuatro
> >
> I have presented myself as a servant.
> coyote 256

The time has come to present myself as the Last Chicano Artist in Minnesota.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Dec 1, 2003 2:09 AM

Clasic. I love it.

~DJ Ray

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Dec 4, 2003 10:43 AM

> Classic. I love it.
>
> ~DJ Ray

I have come to conclude that I am alone in the State of Minnesota as a Chicano Artist. At once I am sad and elated.

The opportunity to define Chicano Art without co- authors is exciting.

This discipline of Coyote Performance Art is more fascinating the more I enter it.

Because it is self funded and "curated" I am freer than most Performance Artists to alter the physical form and material manifestation of the "pieces". At this moment this piece, "Dialogue" exists only in your head, Ray, and in the random Lurkers eyes.

It has been ongoing here on the web for over a year; and has spread out into the "real" world via the MAEP and the "anti Longoria gang"!

And it appears to be expanding outside this venue through the artists community "gossip" route.

I have been running into people at Art functions who do not know who I am when I meet them without introduction and I am blown away when they begin to describe the antics of the "Coyote" with real excitement and fascination!

I am pondering about the need to "document" in a more formal manner the "fact" of the "pieces" so that those who are frightened and "blinded" by the work can better "access" the Coyote Art.

What do you think my friend? Do you have any ideas?

coyote infinite

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Dec 4, 2003 8:11 PM

Well I'm kinda confused. It is the same flavor of confusion that occures when I'm at Artrujillo and artists speaking only spanish act weird around me and the only word I understand is coyote. Then they laugh.
The dialogue exists only in my head? Maybe I should re-read all this someday huh? Or yeah, you might want to create an explainitory overview doc.
I think I want to spy on you at the next art function you go to and we can pretend we don't know each other. Or something fun like that.

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Dec 9, 2003 5:15 PM

> Well I'm kinda confused. It is the same flavor of
> confusion that occures when I'm at Artrujillo and
> artists speaking only spanish act weird around me and
> the only word I understand is coyote. Then they
> laugh.
> The dialogue exists only in my head? Maybe I should
> re-read all this someday huh? Or yeah, you might want
> to create an explainitory overview doc.
> I think I want to spy on you at the next art function
> you go to and we can pretend we don't know each
> other. Or something fun like that.
Good Idea; I'll email you the next public event I attend.
coyote

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jan 28, 2004 12:52 PM

> I was elected to serve on the Artists Board at the
> last annual meeting of the Minneapolis Institute Art
> Minnesota Artists Exhibition Program. I made a
> strong and hostile speech that surprised me in how
> well it was received by the audience. I have been
> troubled ever since on the meaning of my words.
> In short, I ran on the idea that I would be very
> resistant to applicants with shallow and lightweight
> art.
>
> Since the election I have been wondering what the
> Artists who voted for my harsh position heard. I
> know what I said but am still stunned that so many
> agreed with me.
>
> I would love to hear from anyone on the matter.
>
> Jimmy R. Longoria
> aka
> coyote cuatro
>
>
>
Sometimes it is a good thing to remind oneself why one is doing what one is doing.

Coyote 256
Minnesota's Last Chicano Artist

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: May 19, 2004 5:33 PM

> > I was elected to serve on the Artists Board at the
> > last annual meeting of the Minneapolis Institute
> Art
> > Minnesota Artists Exhibition Program. I made a
> > strong and hostile speech that surprised me in how
> > well it was received by the audience. I have been
> > troubled ever since on the meaning of my words.
> > In short, I ran on the idea that I would be very
> > resistant to applicants with shallow and
> lightweight
> > art.
> >
> > Since the election I have been wondering what the
> > Artists who voted for my harsh position heard. I
> > know what I said but am still stunned that so many
> > agreed with me.
> >
> > I would love to hear from anyone on the matter.
> >
> > Jimmy R. Longoria
> > aka
> > coyote cuatro
> >
> >
> >
> Sometimes it is a good thing to remind oneself why
> one is doing what one is doing.
>
> Coyote 256
> Minnesota's Last Chicano Artist

it is all about this

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jun 28, 2004 1:27 PM

Colin Rusch
Posts: 1,122
Registered: Oct 16, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Jun 27, 2004 10:02 PM
Reply

Wow. I just read Ann Klefstad's review of Untitled at Soo VAC. It was quite pleasant reading as far as I was concerned. And the pictures with the review were a welcome addition. I honestly could not remember any of the work after being very deliberate to see all of it at the opening. A day removed from the Christian Marclay opening, I was pleased to read Ann's point of view. I had a similar conversation about the Marclay show at the grocery store this afternoon. The basic gist of it was, "Who cares?" Many dance artists struggle with making meaningful symbols/interactions. When the topic comes up the dialogue often plows down the road of "how do we reach out to audiences." But really, who gives a shit? I'd rather talk about how we can make work that a larger audience could care about? Or more to the point how do we make work that is significant in a larger discourse of culture and meaning? Coyote brought up the point months ago that kids can tell the difference between good art and not so good art. The good art is real and has the life force of something real. It is obvious to kids. As artists I think we are doing good work. But, whether we are making good work is another matter.

It is the point of "performing"; we risk everything on the "audience" when we win it is glorious; when we lose it is life changing; but it is all "our" chosen life and we should curse no one but our selves for not having gone on to selling real estate.

My Coyote Piece will with the coming of the Chicano Show to the Weisman take on more "pointed" significance. My brother artist; make sure you have opened your soul's eyes and can see what we bring to you in the spirit of love.

To keep tying the piece together as it runs out into others lives and minds is hard work. But with help I think the idea will grow.

> > > I was elected to serve on the Artists Board at
> the
> > > last annual meeting of the Minneapolis Institute
> > Art
> > > Minnesota Artists Exhibition Program. I made a
> > > strong and hostile speech that surprised me in
> how
> > > well it was received by the audience. I have
> been
> > > troubled ever since on the meaning of my words.
> > > In short, I ran on the idea that I would be very
> > > resistant to applicants with shallow and
> > lightweight
> > > art.
> > >
> > > Since the election I have been wondering what
> the
> > > Artists who voted for my harsh position heard.
> I
> > > know what I said but am still stunned that so
> many
> > > agreed with me.
> > >
> > > I would love to hear from anyone on the matter.
> > >
> > > Jimmy R. Longoria
> > > aka
> > > coyote cuatro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Sometimes it is a good thing to remind oneself why
> > one is doing what one is doing.
> >
> > Coyote 256
> > Minnesota's Last Chicano Artist
>
> it is all about this

coyote infinity
chicano art
minnesota artist

Colin Rusch

Posts: 1,435
Registered: Oct 16, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 12:40 AM

Hey Jaime,

I am curious about the next phase of the Coyote project. The funny thing about my post is that I truly believe in art making. I have built my life around it and support it in so many ways. But, there are times when I feel like "professional artists" miss the spiritual renewal, understanding, and true beauty that underlies art making. The art and artist lose their soul. In a way I agree with your comment about risking everything by believing in something. You make yourself vulnerable by saying yes to something and no to something else. In another way the most basic thing to do as a person is to be present in something wholly. We are trained out of that state in so many ways by our social environment. It is glorious and utterly mundane.

Colin

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 1:02 PM

> Hey Jaime,
>
> I am curious about the next phase of the Coyote
> project. The funny thing about my post is that I
> truly believe in art making. I have built my life
> around it and support it in so many ways. But, there
> are times when I feel like "professional artists"
> miss the spiritual renewal, understanding, and true
> beauty that underlies art making. The art and artist
> lose their soul. In a way I agree with your comment
> about risking everything by believing in something.
> You make yourself vulnerable by saying yes to
> something and no to something else. In another way
> the most basic thing to do as a person is to be
> present in something wholly. We are trained out of
> that state in so many ways by our social environment.
> It is glorious and utterly mundane.
>
> Colin

Coyote Art is not under my actual control. It is other driven. Right now the question is what does it mean to have the Chicano Art Show come to the Weisman?

Other impulses are the Fallon acknowledgements, and the "contact" e-mail from former "adversaries". Your references to Coyote are in effect similar "calls" for the Art piece to go in your direction.

Coyote is about offering a smoky mirror for you to see yourself; what do you see in the Coyote effect on you?

Your dead on in observing that when any artist "commercializes" the work they lose their soul/ more importantly the "work" loses it's soul!
Yet, how do we pay our mortgage?
Fallon is aware of the aging and decline of many artists he "follows" and certainly he is driven to illuminate the plight of the tragic decay of each "light"/ "old soul". But it is only Nature at work. We are born into the world to die/ our Art Journey is a "life" it to grows in strength and reaches it height and then fades. We need to wise in our youth and plan or accept the Nature of life.

But the "work" never forgives us; it constantly holds us to the "ideal" form. We must; if we chose to continue to call ourselves Artist never retreat from the "challenge".

"Careerism" is killing Art in Minnesota. It is sad. Coyote can only point it out to the artists; it is they that must come to terms with the death of the "dream" of Art.

Coyote will perform at the Weisman. The performance will expand via the "touch" points out into the cosmos. Coyote Infinity is the name of this "aspect" of the Coyote Piece. Your dialogue with the Coyote is one "step" in the spiritual dance. The music is the sound of your awakening in Powderhorn; where the Coyote once performed: The Saturday Farmers Market on the corner parking lot on Chicago and 31 was where the Coyote Painted under a tent only to "paint" for the community. Will you consider "Dancing" for the community in his stead?

coyote infinity
chicano Art
minnesota Art
MAEP panelist/ revolutionary

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 8:55 PM

good to read, thank you

Colin Rusch

Posts: 1,435
Registered: Oct 16, 2002

Re: Dialogue
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 10:57 PM

Jaime,

In many of your posts you have called for courage to make what is real. I just read an interesting article about the danger of precautionary measures. There is something beautiful about the safety of living in truth. There is some much discourse about fear in this could. It seems so much less fruitful to discuss how afraid our friends and fellow citizens are than it is to discuss the deep desire to feel safe in a world that is so precarious these days. Feeling safe plays such an important role in my artistic practice. When I feel grounded and in the right spot my creative activity feels fruitful. The funny thing about that is that I need an edge of exploration, an emerging into something yet to be discovered. I am recalling the line from The Third Man where Orson Welles mentions Switzerland's artistic output being the cuckoo clock vs. the outcome of Renaissance Italy. I am not sure what the relation of safety is to lasting beauty. But, certainly realness is at the center of it.

Here is the article.
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA592.ht

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