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Topic: Feedback on Articles
Replies: 1,148   Pages: 77   Last Post: Dec 6, 2005 8:40 PM by: jaime longoria

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jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 3, 2003 10:53 AM
  Reply

> > Relative to other
> > contemporary work I have seen in recent gallery
> > shows, the McKnight jurors chose artists who
> > generally show a high degree of craft in their
> work.
> > While some poor marks should be given out for
> craft
> > (particularly Martin Merman’s Church Steeple, with
> > its unwieldy use of welded steel bars to support
> an
> > otherwise sleek structure) in general the show
> > demonstrates a high degree of craftsmanship.
>
> Both reviews accuse Martin Merman's Church Steeple of
> sub-par craftsmanship. If we assume that
>
> 1)The McKnight jurors choose artists with a high
> degree of craftsmanship, and
> 2) That everything on display is there for a reason -
> because the artist intended it to be there,
> and
> 3) That the work is a critique of The
> Church/Religion,
>

Why should we assume these three points?
What do you mean by " a high degree of craftsmanship" ?

Why would any work of art "critique" anything?
Is Picasso's Guernica a "critique"?

> then the metaphor becomes almost too obvious
> (sleekness supported by a shoddy foundation - think
> all those "megaplex churches" sprouting up all over
> the suburbs).
>
> How can a professional critic justify walking up to a
> piece by a professional artist and assume that part
> of the piece is unintended?

Please define "professional" in both cases.
And isn't art subject to the interpretation of the viewer?
If the "viewers" miss the point is it not an indicator to the "professional" artist that he needs to continue working the piece until it communicates universally(Mona Lisa)?

I hate arguing by
> analogy, but it's like walking up to a Picasso and
> saying "The artist sports wonderful technique in the
> left corner of the painting, but the disproportionate
> ear and nose signal a very rudimentary understanding
> of anatomy."

Shouldn't one be "informed" on the context of the artist's( Picasso) work before such a statement is made? Again Professionals do their homework before they make such an observation.
>
> Lauren

infante coyote

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 1:15 PM
  Reply

Jaime,

My assumptions were drawn from previous posts/reviews. My first assumption came from Jeremy's statement that:

1)The McKnight jurors choose artists with a high degree of craftsmanship.

My second assumption
2) That everything on display is there for a reason
because the artist intended it to be there


is based on a respect for the artist and the McKnight jurors. I believe that the jurors grant to professional artists with a body of strong work; people that have chosen art as a career and continue to practice their craft regularly.


My third assumption
3) That the work is a critique of Church/Religion

I gathered from the first review of the show posted on mnartists.org.


> Why would any work of art "critique" anything?

Are you just challenging my youth here, or are you serious? I can't believe that an artist of your stature doensn't understand how a piece of art can act as a "critique". Yes, I think Picasso's Guernica could be a critique - but it feels to me to be more of a commentary. A reaction and a "rage against the machine" if you will.

> If the "viewers" miss the point is it not an
> indicator to the "professional" artist that he needs
> to continue working the piece until it communicates
> universally(Mona Lisa)?

Arguments about whether art can be "universal" aside, there is truth in your statement. I often ask myself "What good is art if it doesn't communicate?" but I have to temper that bold question with the words "to a specific audience." Sometimes I see a piece of work that I think is "simple" - and I use the term here with no disrespect intended. I still value this artwork, because to someone else, it might not be simple. It might be a profound way of looking at the world that they never thought of before.

When I think like this, I am humbled, because we all have and (hopefully) will continue to encounter work that someone else thinks is "simple", but offers to us a new insight. This is how we grow.

However, this leads me back to my original point (and question): What is the role/function of the critic?

If art, as you suggested, is subject to the interpretation of the viewer, then it seems that the role of the critic is, simply put, "to be"; to review a work on their own terms and motivate readers to forge ahead and make their own opinions.

So it seems a critic's role is tautological, but necessary.

Lauren

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 4:23 PM
  Reply

What a fantastic discussion of the MCAD show! I apologize for lack of pictures--that is my responsibility. But I did try for a week to get usable images to run with the review with no success. One image was eventually send from the gallery, but it was in an obscure format that I could not convert. So, my apologies. A handsome catalog is published with the show, and I will still try to obtain postable images to run with the review.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 7:54 PM
  Reply

I'm back!
Jamie, 3 people have called me that in the last two weeks. One, a 5 year old boy. Two, a History major student I have been hanging out with lately, and now you.
I'm truly humbled and confused on how to respond. Thankyou.
The MM thing is classic, but I don't know about incorporation. Is it common to Incorporate for a single project? If I were to put my energy into the N.P.O world again, I would naturally want to finish unfinished business from 1999 and compleat my work with the Creative Dreaming Collective. Along the same lines as Clauds inneshetive. I have an incorporation (needs to be restated) and a federal I.D number for the 501c3 status. We just dissolved before the 1023 got filled out. I guess we were the subject of a class at the university of St. Thomas because we helped student lawyers get credit by assisting our process. I would have liked to have been there. I wonder what they learned.
But anyway being a player in city planing is my ambition and I seem to be achieving it. I like the agenda you reveled in another post. Thanks again, my heart is strengthening. I'm all for getting funding and commissioning artists to work.
I'll go think about this stuff at the Bar. Leinies Red as per your suggestion.
~Ray

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 8:25 PM
  Reply

Ray, I think you may have stumbled into the wrong room by mistake. Don't worry, nobody was naked or anything, but maybe you could repost that over in the MM room? Thanks.

Sam

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 4, 2003 11:47 PM
  Reply

Eeep! Put a towel on that thing!

<gasp>

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 5, 2003 8:21 PM
  Reply

yeah, my apologeez. I was just replying to Coyote in a linear mode. Please excuse my irrelevance.

dale snyder

Posts: 509
From: Lakewood Township, Duluth
Registered: Oct 21, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 6, 2003 11:55 AM
  Reply

I feel sooo stupid.
I hadn't watched this thread in some time, and completely missed the Lux Lumen thing. Now I've probably posted my ignorance for everyone to see, oh well..

I can relate to this topic of intended result. As any builder knows, "it's not how good you are, it's how well you cover your mistakes". I can't believe this wouldn't apply to art as well. We will never know what Picasso intended as compared to what he accomplished.

Sam's quote of David Pye seems to bear this out, although he puts it much more eloquently.

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 8, 2003 12:39 AM
  Reply

Ann - a week or so ago you posted that you were working on a piece that explored the differences between grant-funded art works and non-grant funded art works (pieces that perhaps have to be saleable).

How is it going? I am interested in your research and conclusions. Care to share?

And since this is the "Feeback on Articles" thread, perhaps sharing a bit of your writing process would be interesting to the rest of us.

Lauren

Ann Klefstad

Posts: 48
From: Duluth
Registered: Feb 25, 2003
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 9, 2003 3:47 PM
  Reply

Lauren--

When I said "working on some features" I meant mostly commissioning other writers to work on articles. Though I do write as well, I try to avoid posting too many of my own pieces on mnartists, so as to increase the number and variety of voices on the site. I will be doing an interview on this topic, though, and I'd like to gather enough information to generate an editorial on the subject.

My writing process? I run across things, they make me think, and I write down what I think. Mostly. (I am also working, at the moment, on a big prose-poem/fiction thing, a sort of "Paris Spleen" for rural Minnesota. Woo hoo.)

For instance, the germ of this grants/sales idea is from my previous residence in Los Angeles as contrasted with my life here--art in LA is almost completely sales-supported; in Minnesota, things are more grants-oriented. Granted, the times are different, but I've been watching what's coming out of LA and it's not _that_ different from when I was there. Another seed for this idea is Dave Hickey's idea that art is made better by the strong desire of people for it--that is, if the primary mechanism of support for art is that people desire it enough to pay actual cash money for it, then the art and artists that survive are probably going to be pretty good; if they're not, no one will part with that cash money. Grants money, on the other hand, is there for whatever turns up--of course, the process is highly selective, not just any crap gets funded, but the mechanism of relation between money, desire, and art is different in a grants economy. There are other indexes of difference as well--grants-funded art tends to be by intention and selection what you might call pro-social--seen as good for people. Sales-funded art needs to address not needs but wants--it tends to be more involved with appetites, prettier or more beautiful, sexier, tastier, that sort of thing.

Different ideas are engaged by the two structures as well. If you've ever read a final report form and answered those questions, think about the contrast between those goals and the goals of a painting that you bought because you couldn't stand to live without it. They're different.

I do think both forms of funding are good; I think we could do with a more sales-driven artworld in MN.

Shit. Now I've gone and stepped on my own lines. Lauren, you are so naughty.

AK


Message was edited by: Ann Klefstad at Apr 9, 2003 3:52 PM


Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 9, 2003 6:38 PM
  Reply

Ahh very insightfull Ann. Thank you.
~R

dale snyder

Posts: 509
From: Lakewood Township, Duluth
Registered: Oct 21, 2002
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 9, 2003 8:45 PM
  Reply

Sales. Yes, sales are good.

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 9, 2003 10:08 PM
  Reply

So, what you're saying is, if I can make my sculptures tastier, I will sell more of them?

I am intrigued by the difference between sales/grant funded art. I agree that we need to increase the amount of "sales" funded art here. The main problem seems to be that people overwhelmingly purchase works in the below-$1000 range. How do we increase the public's willingness to go out on the line for $5-$20,000? Is the problem the quality of work available in that range or is it the collector's unwillingness (or lack of educational confidence) to assess the value of expensive works?

In the final analysis, perhaps our work does just have to be sexier.

Sam

Lauren DeSteno

Posts: 1,520
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Oct 19, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 10, 2003 12:57 AM
  Reply

Thanks Ann, for the insight. Sorry for being naughty.

Ironically, I was out journaling on these topics today because I was particularly bothered by a grant award I heard about.

I agree - unlike NY or LA, MN relies on grant funding to make art possible. The culture here is fundamentally different. There is an overwhelming sentiment in the MN population that enjoys the idea of an "Arts State" as part of our "Quality of Life". We are willing to endure higher taxes and make modest personal charitible contributions to arts organizations because it is their job to make art possible here - they have the expertise. And that's not sexy. It's practical. It's Minnesotan.

It's terribly civilized, logical, and you'd think it would work *really well. The artists are free (somewhat) from the marketplace and the consumers get to be "nice" - they don't accept or reject art, they just passively fund it cause, well, it's "nice". It effectively removes MN artists and the general population from the vibrant and often messy economic process of having art in a community. And so you wind up with hotdish, I guess?

Another issue - having our money filtered cleanly through arts organizations forces them to perform a balancing act: support local artists or bring in "groundbreaking" work from other parts of the country/world.

I believe that part of the mission of an arts institution is to bring to their residents new art and new viewpoints - which can mean bringing in national/international artists. How often do they buy into the fame of NY and LA - picking exhibitions that bring prestige to their organization, allowing them to ride on the coat tails of the "sexy beast"? Do they feel forced into bringing "sexy" shows to Minneapolis in order to appease their well-to-do donors who like a big famous/fancy party - donors who could easily give their money to another institution? Everyone likes to feel sexy and contemporary.

How often is this at the expense of regional artists? Can it be viewed as such?

I know these statements won't make me very popular... I guess I am a little dis-illusioned with the grant process right now.

Responses, anyone?

PS - Old Man Coyote, where have you gone? (Sanopi)

Sam Spiczka

Posts: 1,671
From: Sartell, MN
Registered: Jul 20, 2001
Re: Feedback on Articles
Posted: Apr 10, 2003 9:36 AM
  Reply

"I know these statements won't make me very popular... I guess I am a little dis-illusioned with the grant process right now."

Yeah, nobody likes it when you state the obvious. Elephant? there is no elephant here...

You seem to combine exhibitions and the sale/creation of works by individuals. Are both of these included under the headline of "funding" artists? I guess I instinctively thought "funding" fell under the heading of direct grants. (Probably because of setting this up as a public/private dichotomy that Ann did. General collectors usually don't set up exhibitions, they just buy the stuff and have people over for coffee.)

Direct grants for individuals is actually an incredibly small percentage of the state arts budget. The rest of it goes to administration and "educational" activities. So, even the state/regional arts boards, to me, do not actually fund that much work relative to their size. Don't get me wrong, there are better grants here than a lot of other places. All this to me is a strong argument for increasing the number of direct sales to strengthen the arts base.

Exhibitions are nice, but they don't pay the bills. And when you get down to it, what we are talking about here is paying the bills.

Perhaps artists are to blame in the sense that we will often use our energies taking part in shows and setting up exhibitions (which really do not make artists money) at the expense of actively trying to "sell." There is alot of prestige in being in a show.

When selling something is considered as big an accomplishment as exhibiting it, we will probably do better.

How's that for being unpopular?

Sam

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