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Topic: The State of Words
Replies: 109   Pages: 8   Last Post: Dec 14, 2005 8:32 PM by: jaime longoria

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Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:31 PM
  Reply

wordbliss/ fingerful of touch/ the golden key
The tall door/ threshold transcendence.
A cult of professional words

To see the office Illuminated
To hear what was once thought

Susannah McNeely

Posts: 83
Registered: Aug 18, 2004
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:32 PM
  Reply

Twas a pleasure to have been part of the lively conversation, thank you. words, words, words. God bless the lucky few who win the literary lottery and those who try valiantly. G'night all, and thanks again.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:33 PM
  Reply

Thanks Gil, Maria, Marya, Susannah and Colin! This was great.

Gilbert V. Wilkes

Posts: 22
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:34 PM
  Reply

> I'm not sure we've really discussed the state of
> literature, but I've certainly enjoyed the
> discussion. I cheerfully sign off as your
> unapologetically elitist, academic, pro-art-as-work
> contributor. Thanks to all for participating.

I, too, cheerfully sign off as your other academic, your rhetorician who enjoys a well written set of instructions in an online, context sensitive help screen as much as he enjoys Shakespear or Milton. (To be more precise, more than Milton, less than Shakespear.)

Maria Damon

Posts: 18
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:34 PM
  Reply

there's a lot stirred up here. i tend to think that the novel is a form in decline, but what do i know, perhaps that's just because i don't read novels. i think the arc of conventional plot, the bourgeois coming-to-consciousness of the individual, may be a played-out theme, but again, what do i know.

i'd like to think further about the proliferation of cultural production in tandem with "shrinking resources" for professional "art" projects...

Maria Damon

Posts: 18
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:37 PM
  Reply

goodnight, all, sleep tight, and enjoy your dreams. thanks colin for the opportunity to ramble on with this delightful passel of lunatics.

Gilbert V. Wilkes

Posts: 22
Registered: Apr 24, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:39 PM
  Reply

> there's a lot stirred up here. i tend to think that
> the novel is a form in decline, but what do i know,
> perhaps that's just because i don't read novels. i
> think the arc of conventional plot, the bourgeois
> coming-to-consciousness of the individual, may be a
> played-out theme, but again, what do i know.

You know a lot, apparently. I like your analysis.

>
> i'd like to think further about the proliferation of
> cultural production in tandem with "shrinking
> resources" for professional "art" projects...

Think about the lavish sound adn graphics available in any immersive-environment video game; think also of the lavish scripting. The arts are alive, but I think they may have relocated a little bit.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:41 PM
  Reply

Nitenite.
FYI there is a movie out soon, based on the book Factotum by Charles Bukowski. It is about a writer (OF WORDS) taking odd jobs and such. I think it may be an enjoyable take on some of the issues just mentioned.

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 8:43 PM
  Reply

Think about the lavish sound adn graphics available in any immersive-environment video game; think also of the lavish scripting. The arts are alive, but I think they may have relocated a little bit.

Great Scot Wilkes! You've got it! Code writing and all.

John Orth

Posts: 37
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 27, 2005 10:27 PM
  Reply

Ray,
Have you heard when and where the premier of "Factotum" will be presented? I would be very interested to know. I like your mention of contemporary local creations and efforts Ray, you've my support for that kind of factual information. I watched some of the filming of "Factotum", if people don't know, some of it was filmed here in Minneapolis. I hope it is a better point of departure than "Barfly" was.
Salute,
John Orth
P.S. What is your definition of "appropriate" Ray? If there was a master of appropriation, who would it be?

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 2:12 PM
  Reply

hmm. Factotum ( \fak-TOH-tuhm\, noun:
A person employed to do all kinds of work or business)
Premiers tomorrow night according to this trailer site.
http://www2.filmweb.no/trailer/article.jhtml?articleID=53450 . But it doesn't say where....
Yesterdays Pioneer Press follows
Posted on Wed, Apr. 27, 2005
A bit of St. Paul at Cannes

St. Paul's "Vision of Peace" sculpture will be getting a vision of the Riviera next month. The three-story-tall onyx sculpture, a fixture of the St. Paul City Hall/Ramsey County courthouse, is featured prominently in "Factotum," the Matt Dillon/Marisa Tomei movie that shot in the Twin Cities last year. "Factotum," based on a novel by Charles Bukowski, has been selected for the Director's Fortnight at the Cannes Film Festival, which begins May 11.
(No word yet on when the film, which does not have a U.S. distributor, will open here.)


So, there, I have just "appropriated" the news. I think I would define it as putting pre-existing content into new context. Using ready material for new work, or play. I'm going to look it up because really, I don't know.
The Catholic Encyclopedia defines it thus;
Appropriation
In general, consists in the attribution to a person or thing of a character or quality which determines in a special way this person or thing. In theology, appropriation is used in speaking of the different Persons of the Trinity. It consists in attributing certain names, qualities, or operations to one of the Persons, not, however, to the exclusion of the others, but in preference to the others.


Aha! Artlex has a good definition.
appropriation - To take possession of another's material, often without permission, reusing it in a context which differs from its original context, most often in order to examine issues concerning originality or to reveal meaning not previously seen in the original. This is far more aggressive than allusion or quotation, it is not the same as plagiarism however. An image reused in collage is an example, but more complete are the photographs that Sherri Levine (American) made of photographs by earlier photographers.

But, I think you were being funny Mr. Orth and using it as a pun. Or, well, you know I can't spell as I cast. I like these definitions too...

suitable for a particular person or place or condition etc; "a book not appropriate for children"; "a funeral conducted the appropriate solemnity"; "it seems that an apology is appropriate"

advantageous: appropriate for achieving a particular end; implies a lack of concern for fairness

allow: give or assign a share of money or time to a particular person or cause; "I will earmark this money for your research"

apposite: being of striking appropriateness and pertinence; "the successful copywriter is a master of apposite and evocative verbal images"; "an apt reply"


Ahh, that was magical.

God, the higher intelligential order/being-force of the infinite seamless universe, is the master of appropriation. Unless you don't belive in a higher power, in which case Woody Allen, Andy Warhol, Trent Reznor, Duchamp, and Lou Reed are all cited as "masters of appropriation".

jaime longoria

Posts: 1,161
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 2:36 PM
  Reply

Gabriel Combs

Posts: 1,182
Registered: Jun 16, 2002
Re: What are you doing today?
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 2:54 AM
Reply

uhh, where am i? oh, yeah...
work.
art.
work.
art.
artwork. finding solutions today. i used to keep dead dragonflies. they are just so amazing. their brilliant color becomes monotone after they die. i quit keeping them very long though, because some sort of worm eats out the insides, leaving the exo-skeleton. i guess i just don't want those worms around. its all visual really, in that regard. mites are eating my dead skin cells everywhere around me. rust is actively eating metal. oh, the systems. circles. spheres.

jaime longoria

Posts: 913
Registered: Oct 7, 2002
Re: What are you doing today?
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 2:34 PM
Reply

> uhh, where am i? oh, yeah...
> work.
> art.
> work.
> art.
> artwork. finding solutions today. i used to keep dead
> dragonflies. they are just so amazing. their
> brilliant color becomes monotone after they die. i
> quit keeping them very long though, because some sort
> of worm eats out the insides, leaving the
> exo-skeleton. i guess i just don't want those worms
> around. its all visual really, in that regard. mites
> are eating my dead skin cells everywhere around me.
> rust is actively eating metal. oh, the systems.
> circles. spheres.

uhh,
where am i?
oh, yeah...

work.art.work. art.
work.art.work. art.
work.art.work. art.
work.art.work. art.

artwork.
finding solutions today

i used to keep dead
dragonflies.

they were
just so amazing.

their
brilliant colors become monotone after they die.

i
quit keeping them very long though, because some sort
of worm eats out the insides

leaving only the
exo-skeleton.

i
i guess i just don't like the idea of those worms
around.

its all visual really, in that regard.

mites
are eating my dead skin cells everywhere on me.
rust is actively eating metal.

oh, the systems of nature.
circles. spheres.

Jimmy "Jaime" Longoria
Chicano Artist de Minnesota

Coyote Infinity on the use of "words" on the forums.

with much love for my friend gabe

John Orth

Posts: 37
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Apr 28, 2005 11:23 PM
  Reply

Ray,
Thank you, for information on "Factotum", somehow Cannes seems far away right now, interesting to know that a distributor on this side of the pond is not yet available. ( I think it a worthy grant proposal for you however, to attend the festival and return with a brief report of a film partially made in the twin cities.)
Though my post script question was a second thought, how interesting for me to read the response. I did have the metaphysical presupposition that you would be a most interesting person to address the subject of appropriation and to be brief, it is a rather extenuating word. I did not directly intend to pun, sometimes that is just natural occurrence (Panza, you know, on the mule) my point was that the word has become fashionable in usage to describe torrents of artistic activity. Such things as "The Art of Appropriation" etcetera variations. I just wanted to know what the common denominator might be, or what people might think an acceptable appropriation was as opposed to an unacceptable appropriation. It was magical Ray, I felt so in the reading of your illumination, you might like "The Professor And The Madman" written by Simon Winchester. If you don't know of it, and why should you, or I for that matter, check it out at the library. In future when time permits, my poor eyes, I might like to further the pursuance of your good and kind lesson.
John Orth

Ray Rolfe

Posts: 3,263
From: Northeast Minneapolis
Registered: Sep 5, 2001
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Jun 1, 2005 2:52 PM
  Reply

So Bukowski huh? I should go aquaint myself. Tons of his writings all over the internet I'm guessing. I saw some Bukowski CD's, maybe I can find some audio.

I'll just ask, since no one else did.
WHAT IS THE STATE OF WORDS?

John Orth

Posts: 37
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Re: The State of Words
Posted: Jun 3, 2005 9:54 AM
  Reply

Ray,
A Healthy Humor first comes to mind with Mr. Charles Bukowski, much material is available (Cult, Faddist), Black Sparrow Press I think, many published volumes and short stories. His voice is worth finding, and that could be on the net. As for the state of words, 25 cents a piece, unless we can write about how great we are, that privilege should be free for any audience.
John Orth

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