Free posty, but no posty?

[purenoumena]

Your thoughts about closing galleries, the lack of "good art", "so many" opportunities and how artists are "self absorbed" are all really interesting points. I've heard those comments from more than a few people, especially when they hit the crawls and are repeatedly disappointed. I try to create a different environment at AE, but as we've been working on our structure we also try to make sure we are serving the public in the right way - our artists and our audience. What do artists really need? probably to sell more works - but.... sales aren't that high where we are at and to be honest, not a lot of people are going to shell out a deserving price for an emerging artist, no matter how breathtaking the work is. Are we giving the audience something different? Are we serving our artists effectively? Our mission is to give artists a voice, showing works that wouldn't be shown elsewhere for political or other reasons. Our mission isn't entirely to line their pockets - though I understand that making money from art is part of making their role as an artist sustainable. (our mission by the way is <I>"to sustain the role of artists as a true voice of society through our exhibits, events, services, workshops and programs."</I>) And when you talk about how artists (in america) these days are self absorbed - well what an interesting picture that paints. If artists represent a voice of American society, wouldn't you say that egotistical self-absorbed stance is unfortunately often a fairly good representation? If we could find more "nice" artists and fewer "angsty" or egotistical artists, how do you think the work would change?

I guess for me I just think of, what is the ideal situation? (in respect to the culture of arts.) What do I think is right or wrong with the current system? What (if anything) am I doing actively to change it? I think we will all have different views on that matter - but I think if we are all moving forward with our thoughts and hopes, the arts culture here in the cities will only improve because of it. Take for example, even three of us here - we have different ideas of what we view as professional. If my goal is to make the gallery experience more accessible to artists, John's goal is to have more artists working professionally in how they show their work and Gabriel's goal is to make sure that what is out there is being critiqued appropriately, and we all do those things, we've done a lot. I've widened the platform and invited more artists to show. John has helped up the quality by setting standards for showing professionally. Gabriel, you've helped by making sure what is out there is being reviewed… some make their way to the top and some don't, but what gets to the "top" is higher quality, selected from a broader audience. Artists have more opportunity to succeed but they also have to up the ante, so to speak, and actually produce better works.

Now the tricky part, defining "success" and what is "good" or "bad" when it comes to art and what involves being at the top. Solo shows? Lots of sales? And about that in-crowd… Maybe there needs to be some sort of "in crowd" for any "scene" to feel "real" to an outsider. I'm more of an inclusionist myself. Unfortunately though I run a gallery, I don't really go to as many openings as I probably should. If there is indeed an "in-crowd", perhaps they are all talking about how I'm corrupting the art world (haha!) of the cities with all the students and "no-name" artists that come through my doors, showing along with the "successful" artists that come through my doors as well. I probably couldn't afford the lifestyle that goes along with being in the "in-crowd" anyway and I've always been kind of a dork when it comes to things that are "cool." I'll stick to hanging out with my starving artist friends at grumpy's.

If I type one more sentence with "these quotes" I'm going to do something awful.

/end two cents.

[S. Holster]

Thank you all for the well written and fully formed thoughts and comments in this thread. I think it’s safe to say that anyone who is taking the time to participate, cares and is concerned with the current and future state of the arts here in MN and how it is viewed by the rest of the world at large; how to generate interest, attendance, participation, and ultimately revenue and a higher standard of living for all in the end. Questions that I have for any galley owner, and have asked many, and will ask it here, is how do you go about nurturing your client base? The mechanics used to generate patrons? Might be helpful/informative/educational for the artists out there to understand the work that goes into that from the angle of a gallery owner/business person who has to make the rent every month so they can continue to provide that venue. What does that piece of the bigger puzzle look like? And to the silent out there, why are y’all so silent? Is it as simple as having nothing to say? Does the low participation here contribute to gallery owners not using these forums under the idea that their time and effort is better spent through direct mail and print ads that reach a broader audience/potential client base/revenue for themselves and the artists they represent? And a question for Sam, who goes out there and does it himself, (with a quite admirable work ethic) what have you found to be the most effective tool or tools to get your work out there and placed and sold? An old chestnut that keeps coming to mind is, Do what you’ve always done and you are going to get what you’ve always gotten.
Silence begets more silence, non-participation begets more non-participation, in the arts and the culture at large at what point do we get back to the idea that no-one is going to do anything for you – get out there and do it yourself. And to all of you who do that, thank-you, keep up the good work.

[Sam Spiczka]

To answer Shawn quickly... What works is diversification. I have any number of things going on in different venues seeking different audiences, all in an attempt to connect with "my people." The hope is that at any given time, at least one avenue will lead to something constructive, whether that be feedback, motivation, collectors, etc.

I'm actually writing this in Loveland, Colorado. Today was the final day of a large, weekend sculpture festival, Sculpture in the Park, my second year attending the event. Sales across the board were very, very slow, but I met some new people, have a few new contacts, and traded an excellent sculptor for a piece of his work. I'm rather tired, but I think I'll look back in a week and find it was a worthwhile trip. I look forward to getting back in the studio and creating more work for a solo show at St. John's University in February where my goal is not to sell anything, but to put on the best exhibition you've ever seen. In a month or so I have to deliver a sculpture to Duluth purchased by Lake Superior College via percent for art. Around that same time, I'll have to pick up a piece from a group show in Chicago where my goal was to be included in a fantastic catalog and get a toe hold in that community. Always there are extended outdoor sculpture shows I lend my work to and hanging out there like a juicy carrot - I'm a finalist for a $50k commission in New York, which may or may not happen. There is more, but my point here is not to overwhelm, but to give an indication of the number of different "pies" you need to have your fingers in to survive (or at least that's my experience).

I'm enjoying this conversation and perhaps will get to contribute to more when I get home.

[Lux Iconic]

Although it's been like writing to a brick wall, I've mentioned several times the reasons why potential new posters are driven away from the site. Nothing ever changes though.

1. This place is an echo chamber, wherein the regulars circle-jerk themselves till they're blue in the face, team up against anyone who thinks differently than they do, and wonder why everyone is running away in disgust.

2. When the posters aren't circle-jerking each other, they are self-stimulating themselves till they're purple with their absolute lust for their every thought, gesture, and fecal expulsion. Maybe not everyone wants to read every random thought or crappy piece of non-art from fellow posters. Maybe people just want to discuss issues or seek out information here and not be friends with or see the bad art of every Tom, Dick, and Skippy McWannabeartist.

3. The combination of a holier-than-thou attitude among several regular posters, with an actual lack of real experience or merit and occasional true cluelessness (claims of racism on the site, posting porn sites from someone with the same name as a poster, misquoting other posters, outing a homeless person who had reason to fear for his safety just because you don't deem him a "real" homeless person, etc etc) frustrates those of us who take what we do seriously.

4. And, for me, lack of regard for the hard work of the site's writers and editors.


Thanks,
--the Ghost of Lux (R.I.P.)

[Gabriel Combs]

I appreciate the feedback and have enjoyed reading the coversation.

To LUX: In some regards, you could be right, but overall, you are an asshole. Yes, I just called you an asshole online, and if I see you in public i'll ignore you unless you approach me, at which point i'll say I think you are an asshole. Take care, oh bitter man.

And just to note, i'm not being apologetic about what i've written anywhere online, from anytime, but my "real" personality is'nt my online one. I'm one thats been beating myself up forever, hyper-sensitive, avoids killing insects, and i've always been more critical of my own work than others work.

If others can't come on here because of a few of us, i'm sorry for them and their lack of a spine.

Good day, all.

[Lux Iconic]

Well well well....
I thought folks wanted to know what was wrong with these forums. Why people have stopped coming here. Etc, etc.

For the record, most of the previous comments, blunt as they were, were directed at and focused on RRowlf and his ilk--the 20-so, Gen Y, pretty young boy-artist, I'm-so-creative-everything-I-do-is-great-right clan that has IMHO driven away everyone else from this site. But if you chose to take it personally, Gabe, I can't help that.

It's nice--and I thank you for the fact--that your response exhibited to a great degree my listed tendencies number 1 and 3, and to a lesser degree tendency 2 (though no doubt this is a driving force in your exhibition of 1 and 3). Congrats! Your near-perfect trifecta vindicates the Lux for all his future oil-in-the-well wrench-in-the-works antics.


--the dearly departed Lux

[Ray Rolfe]

What makes you bloggers think you can come out of your holes and attempt direct communication with mighty gods of art?

It's a good think theres no such person as "Ray Rowlf". He probably would not think highly of you for your ill timed drafting of slanders, and limited, bitter lenses on reality.

You take yourself pretty seriously for a fronted out hide behind piece.

People should feel free to post any dumb thing they want without being expected to perform some epic demonstration of faux intellectual artistry. There are no readers.

And hey, that homeless guy wrote his piece and between the two of us, we got him paid for the day. At no time did anyone "fear for his safety" or whatever your fantasy is. Just think about how ridicules that sounds. I'm scared because you don't think I'm really homeless... What? Oh yeah, my personal safety is at stake because you question if I'm really homeless.

Gimmie a break, joke.
Attached is an mp3 audio of your words in a British accent.

[Gabriel Combs]

i'm just saying publicly what most people i've spoken with that know who you are say. i'm not conerned with your numbered points, just telling you the truth. you dug your hole, now you gotta lay in it, just like everyone else. you make your articles weaker by being a jerk, and its unfortunate.

heal thyself.

[tlbn]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Combs

I appreciate the feedback and have enjoyed reading the coversation.


If others can't come on here because of a few of us, i'm sorry for them and their lack of a spine.

Good day, all.

I certain you all probably couldn't care less what any one else thinks but you guys and your continual bickering and slandering each other is THE reason why no one wants to participate. If someone not in your surly guy click wants to start a thread or talk about something that isn't divisive you ignore or attack (with the exception of two or three people - but it's easy to get caught up in the conversation, isn't it?). I am so glad I learned to speed read because I can speed over the majority of conversation here and read the interesting tidbits. Just because someone clicks on one of these threads doesn't mean that they've read it - it probably means that they saw what was going on and left because of the arguing. This is like your personal little chat room and you've taken over like a gang. It's boring, period - not intimidating - just incredibly dull.

I would like to have a reputable art forum and be able to participate in some real conversation - you all say you would as well but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up.

[Gabriel Combs]

tlbn, you've shown some classic passive-aggressive posting on here, as a lot of people do. i've replied to your posts in the past, but i've felt you were looking for something else. oh, yes, your painting thread, which i offered some advice i heard, and you just attacked that persons' advice and did'nt even reply to me. thats fine, but why don't you rally your people that feel that way and get them to all post a reply telling us specifically what they don't like about the forums for themselves.

have fun painting!